[Dan Stoneking]: 44, that's 46 mystic valley power plant was recording some high usage over a period of time. If you look at the graph that I presented to you, you can see that it picked up some time after October. and carried on, the reading device eventually died. And that was, I didn't, if you look at the red Xs on the bottom of the graph, that indicates days that aren't calling in. I basically ended the graph when the reading device stopped calling in completely. You know what I mean? These little Xs mean for the day-to-day, if I extend it, it would just be all red Xs. So I wanted to show the leap as fast as possible, before and after.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's the date that it stopped working? Do you know?
[Dan Stoneking]: That's not out yet. Okay, okay. Sometime, it was like almost October, I think, of 2023. When these get cold in the winter, they tend to stop.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reading device is a part of the meter, or it's attached?
[Dan Stoneking]: It's attached to the meter. It's attached to the meter. So it's just communicating the data.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Dan Stoneking]: And so basically, we went dark on data. Yeah. Yeah. So when that happened, I continued to estimate, I continued to, let me look at this. We got in contact, so if you look at the actual usage report, there was no ease because we went from an actual reading in September to the closeout reading when I actually got into the property. The timeline works where Rachel reached out to us and said that she wasn't getting her bills because the name was never changed. Hey, can we talk about that for 1 2nd show? That's something that I was gonna bring up and not a good time. So when did you purchase the property? What was the month of the year that you purchased it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it was 2021, July 2021. 7-21 the property was purchased? Yeah.
[Dan Stoneking]: If you look at the usage report, you can see that it's, we had it reported at 7-13-21. This is right here. You know, because it was like, it was like a mid bill. It was like an extra bill. It was on sheet two. Yeah. Right. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, because we pull the readings every 20 seconds, every other 20 seconds. Correct me if I'm wrong. If a property is purchased, isn't there some sort of. What was it out of the old meter to the old owner? That was that bill right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[Dan Stoneking]: That was the final rebill. Right. So then at that point, isn't the homeowner providing some information of where the bill should go and who the claim of the new owner is? They do not go by the tax bill. They do not go by the tax bill. They work alone. They're completely separate. The treasury, it's their rule. It's the homeowner's responsibility to come forward and do this to me. Okay, so where were the bills going? Now, you've taken ownership as of July of 21.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen a water bill since I purchased it.
[Dan Stoneking]: Where would they have come from? The previous owner. It would say in the previous owner's name. So is the previous owner not at the actual location? Correct. So there's the issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even though there was a final read, a new water bill, which needed to go to the previous owner, because there was never any switchover to the, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did not know, because I thought the taxes, real estate taxes, when you purchase, it goes to the city of Winford. I thought it was only one website, actually, right?
[Unidentified]: And I never even questioned it.
[Dan Stoneking]: So from July 20, July of 21, when did you actually receive your first fiscal fiscal bill in your name and your address?
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember very clearly that I got a bill. Right.
[Dan Stoneking]: What year?
[SPEAKER_00]: This year. Oh, last year.
[Dan Stoneking]: That was the demand. That's it. They said that if you don't pay the bill by the end of the year, it would get shifted to the real. What is the procedure? I mean, for a bill to go three, four thousand dollars, you're not paid normally. When does a trigger go off when that first letter goes out? And where did the letter go? Letter? that you're behind on your bill, please take it. Just don't. Oh, yes. I thought I read that letters were sent out. I'm sorry. I could have swore I read that. No, I said I sent a leak letter. OK, sorry. But what did you do? What did you say? I looked at the mailing address on the bill in the owner. And I and I and I said that there. And I did it during a billing cycle. because when I do bills, I sort by usage, and I look for anything that looks funny. And I'll have like 55 station landing, and then 44-46 Mystic Valley Highway, which is two condos. And you think that the old owner would say, I'm getting bills, please change it to the new owner. I'm terrible at them. Well, if you think about it, Mark, we're talking about July 2021. Six months later, their forward was probably stopped. If they forwarded their mail, it would have stopped sometime late, but they probably only ordered about one. So after that, the forwarding probably stopped. Do you see what I'm asking? I will kind of recap. She bought the property in July of 21. And she really didn't receive a actual bill in her name and the right address until October of 23. So we went almost a year and a half of no bills getting to the right person to pay.
[Unidentified]: Yeah, I read, yeah. One other time, yeah. What Ronnie pointed out is correct. As a homeowner, you buy a piece of property, and the first thing you do is make sure that you're taxed to the property. It's not being said to you with the correct advertisement. You have to go to City Hall and sue for that, or your lawyer does it for you. And the same thing for water and sewer. The laws of the cities of town are such that Whether you ever get a bill or you don't get a bill, it's still up to you. The homeowner's responsibility is to make sure that that bill is handed to you, because you're still responsible for it. Now, it seems to me that since you bought that home, for whatever reason, I'm not sure if it was your husband or whoever you bought it from, or whoever you bought it from, just was no longer that property, of course. and and uh it's a thing that doesn't at least notify you hey i'm getting these bills and and i think they fall out to you and i'll give an example of what happened i just saw the property example last year we'll keep the property and that's a spread going so forth that the new owner first thing they did that the lawyer that handles the things i say get the city home and make sure that you're the new owner, and that your water and sewer and everything else is supposed to be sent to you as whatever address we give you the second to. And he did that. Even by doing that, somehow, I still received the very first and the second water bill for that building that I owned in Benton Square. So sometimes it takes the city a month or two to catch up to it, but that's about it. But the responsibility was to do all of it, to go to the city hall and make sure that this information was on the city hall records that could be built for both the factions and the water and sewer. It's an unfortunate set of circumstances that the lawyer doesn't have time to say, hey, look, you've got to do A, B, C, and D. You know, you bought this house. It's our house. Do what you've got to do to follow up.
[Dan Stoneking]: I have a question though for Ron. So the bills are going out and normally the U.S. mail department says return the sender. Did you get anything that said hey there's nobody at this address? Nothing? I don't work in the treasury. The return bills go to the treasury? The treasury has a system that they used to do. I still There seems to be, Dominic, in my opinion, there seems to be a little disconnect. under these kinds of circumstances with our own city hall. I mean, you would think that the postal service would return the letter to where it was sent from, which is the treasury office. And then the treasury office should have reacted to it. And I guess they do, they go to the registry of deeds and they see who owns the property. And that's what they'll change the address to, to make sure that the bill is going to the proper person. So I think we have to take an awful lot into consideration here, because I don't think there was gross negligence on anyone's behalf, but it's just, this is very unfortunate. I know that they used to do that in the past. You'd have to speak to the treasurer. She has her staff do that.
[Unidentified]: Anybody's, whatever it is, it's a total misunderstanding over here. The bylaws, clearly states that the responsibility is that of the holder to make sure that the bills are protected that need to be paid for the city, both to the correct address, as an owner, and the storage. It's a matter of fact, if she looks at the bylaw for the city, it clearly states on the tax case, for example, that whether you have to get a bill or not You're still responsible to pay that money in case of that. You can't say, well, I never got a bill. It doesn't matter. You have to make it your business to make sure they should go to City Hall or whatever you need to do to get those bills received. Otherwise, at the end of the year, you know what happens. If you don't pay your taxes in Waterfield, what does it do?
[Dan Stoneking]: In all the years that you've been on the committee, all the years you've been on the commission, and it's a lot more than mine, it's six, have you ever had a case of this type of nature where you've made a ruling on it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I ask a clarifying question? So there's 2, but there's 2 issues happening here, right? 1 is that you weren't receiving, you never transferred the property into your name, the water and sewer bills into your name. And so. The water bills were going to the previous owner and not to you and that's why you got a demand bill. So that's 1 thing, but there's still a separate issue with the leak. Right? I mean, there. we're dealing with both issues. So while we're staying on the demand bill, the part about the fact that you weren't receiving the bills and therefore didn't know you had to pay them, I just want to make sure I understand the timing because the unpaid bills started in July of 2021. That's fiscal year 22. But Ms. Lee didn't receive the demand letter until November of 2023, which is fiscal year 24. So it's like, I would have expected a demand letter to go out in fiscal year 23.
[Dan Stoneking]: It's not a demand letter, it's a demand bill. So because- No, no, no, but- Yeah. But when you get the demand bill, is your name on it?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[Dan Stoneking]: No, how'd you get the demand bill?
[SPEAKER_00]: somebody somehow lived there.
[Dan Stoneking]: It was a property address, not the owner's address. So the demand bill is no different than any other bill, right? Any other tax bill. So it was sent to whoever was on the mailing address, whoever was on the owner. So it didn't change anything, but maybe the color of it, it comes in pink rather than white or blue. Maybe the fact that it came pink and it said demand on it, maybe the tenant said, maybe I should give this to the owner. I would think the Treasury Department would just go right to the tax information and send that water bill out to the people outside. That's the type of name changes that happen. I know, but if she was receiving her tax bills, you would think that the Treasury Office, if they bought her, would give her a letter saying this. The tax bills have changed. when the registry of deans submits, which is within days of a closing. Within days, that deed is finished. Yeah, but I don't think that the tax bill changes that fast. But yeah. They get records, the city gets records of a change of ad voter. and they change the owner's name from the Registry of Deeds, just like the excise bills come from the motor vehicles. So you may want to be instrumental with future problems of this nature and have a procedure. Maybe we should put, as a commission, something in place. You understand the actual leakage, and I think that's a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, well, I think it's important to figure out what's going on with the billing issue, because if Miss Lee had been getting the bills, she would have been become aware of the leak earlier, right? So it's important to figure out why she wasn't getting the bills. Now, I understand, Dominic, I understand that it's the property owner's responsibility to transfer the bills to their name. I understand that. I'm just, I guess I'm confused about the fact that a demand bill arrived, but no other bills arrived.
[Dan Stoneking]: At the location of the leak, not the owner. She's out of state.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you living in the city? You don't live in the property. Oh, okay.
[Dan Stoneking]: Doesn't that seem strange? It does to me. I would think that I would have thought that if the Treasury Department says, hey, you owe $6,000, and we haven't seen any money, that when it comes back, they go, geez, they don't live there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're saying the Treasury signed the demand bill?
[Dan Stoneking]: They send all the bills. So they should have, it's like you get six bills a year, but if you don't pay, they attach a $10 fee and resend it and say you've got 14 days to pay it. But that first bill should have came back with Charmaine Sandoval.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the only they're not going out and looking to see that the bills are going to the property, but the tenants were just ignoring. I think there's a very good chance of that. Okay.
[Dan Stoneking]: If you're trying to make sense, make sense of the story. Yeah.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah. White bill, white bill, paint demand. I'm glad I sent this to my landlord. And then maybe we should think about sending a registered receipt. Someone signs for it that they received it, so that way we know they got it. In the future, thousands. Well, in the future, you're talking big, little, thousands? Yes. Anything over $25? Let's send the demand. So if you have $26, that $26 becomes $36. But they should have gotten six return to send it because there's at least six billing cycles in that year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if they're just getting sent to the property and the tenants, they're just ignoring.
[Dan Stoneking]: Maybe they're not getting returned to sender.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're not getting returned to sender. Maybe the tenants have just been ignoring the bill. So that's where you'd have to kind of help us out.
[SPEAKER_00]: May I speak? Sure, absolutely. The tenants have been there, actually, for years. They have a great relationship. Yeah. This is actually the first one the tenants received. That's what they told me, because they all lived there for years.
[Dan Stoneking]: Well, you know, I went to the property and I spoke to Rachel and I spoke to a plumber a couple of weeks before that who met me there. Tenants, they tend to lie, especially if they know it's their fault, right? Someone in the building had a toilet running and didn't bring it to a retention. Potentially water bills were being sent to the property potentially not being given to the owner? Well, in this letter that does say the city was told that all toilets were inspected and there was no leakage. Who's the person that sent this to the city and who received that letter? The city was told that all toilets were inspected and there was no leakage. I'm just going back and forth. through emails with Rachel. And I said, look, number one, I gotta get into the meter. I gotta verify the reading. I know, but this statement, the city was told. Who told the city? You told the cities that all the toilets were inspected and there was no issue?
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually have a letter from my plumber. What's the date of that? Well, the date is November when I contacted them. November of 23? Yes. So, let me just give you the situation.
[Dan Stoneking]: I was going back and forth with emails with Rachel, and I said, look, we have to get in. Maybe potentially we could find a way. She explained to me that she had a plumber go through the whole property. There was no issues. This is November 23, though. Correct. Correct. So I went there with the property management company, Feeney Property Management Company, whose name is Patrick. And Patrick was like, Ron, You know, there's going to be a mistake. So I said, I'll meet you there. We'll go from the whole place. And he said he had his plumber already out there. There's no issues. When I got there, I changed the meter. The meter was not running, but I did go to the first floor, one of the toilets, and it's on my work order. It's a, it's a cola, they have a center, like, um, well, not a flapper, it's got a cylinder that goes up and down. Instead of a flapper, it's got a tube that goes up and down, but it does the same thing where it seals the whole thing, right? When I took the cover off and I flushed it, the canister stuck, which means that it could have been stuck wide open. And I said to Patrick, I said, Patrick, This is a, he was saying right beside me, I said, look, I said, this isn't going to stop until somebody stops it prior to 1023 or after 1023, after the plumber coming. So you have someone that says on 1020 stop, well. around that time, that the toilets are running fine. And then Ron brings in someone. So let me just say, so Patrick calls the plumber who lived down the street and said, hey, you know, we're in the first floor bathroom, it's running. And he's like, all right, I'll come and fix it. And Patrick's like, you know, I thought you said that everything was fixed. That's Patrick in that letter? No, the plumber. But the plumber then said, I didn't get into that. So, you know, and then we went around to the whole property. I checked a couple other toilets. He said he fixed some stuff upstairs before we got there. So, but you know, prior when he went out to inspect the place. So, I mean, The leakage, if you broke it down to something running constantly, it was either 1.5 to 2 gallons per minute, which is like a flush of a toilet. So my guess is it was a toilet. It wasn't reported to her for over a year. Um, since, uh, whenever the graph shot, well, February 2020, my, my acumen was that September? No, uh, November of 22, right? So November of 23, that's a year. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that would require you and I would get some math together. Well, not together, separately. So that requires the water running gets stopped 24-7 for a whole year. So I don't know about you, but I think anybody living in an apartment like that would hear the noise would be very loud with that amount of water running. And I also did interview the tenants. She said she's a homeowner herself.
[Dan Stoneking]: She never really... How old is the tenant on the first floor with this issue with the toilet?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she's very healthy.
[Dan Stoneking]: All right, so you're saying that her hearing is...
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, pretty good. So would it occasionally stop? She said perhaps, but she said she never, she never find that stop.
[Dan Stoneking]: Well, you could see that, you know, at the beginning, it was kind of sporadic, and then toward the end, it was... I'm questioning the graph. But the meeting, you said, when you did go in there, and I don't remember the date, you said it was stuck, it wasn't working. No, no, no, no. It was shocked. Oh, there was no water. The leak detector wasn't spinning. I watched it for about 10 minutes while Patrick went upstairs and knocked on the doors to try to get in. I did not get into the second cell. It wasn't that odd? Here you are looking at the meter. It's not spinning. We lost data. We didn't get data for two months because we weren't getting readings. So you're saying it was a faulty meter in general? I never said that. No, no, but I mean... Well, if you're not seeing the hurricane thing spin, you know no one... The leak wasn't happening when I got there. I never used the word faulty? No, no, no. The meter was an issue. Did we swap the meter out? Yes. There was something wrong with the meter. I would never, no, I would never assume that. Please don't put words in my mouth. And I was estimating the bill because we weren't getting readings. We are changing the whole, every meter in the city, every meter that we go to, we're gonna change it, especially ones where we're gonna have to estimate. There was no problem with the meter. I'll send it out to the company if you guys wanna test it. She did say she wanted to test it, but then we talked about it and she said, let's go to the meeting first. It's sitting beside my desk. I can send it out. My guess is that it's going to be reporting between 95 and 97 percent. Every other meter always does. It may fail as an under-reporting because it's old. That's why the city's changed the meters. They're running at about 95 percent. If it fails, let me just finish. One second. if it fails it fails because it's not within 98.5 and 101.5 percent that's a failure by a wwa standards 98.5 yeah and the reason why that is over registration under registration over registration would be bad for the customer under registration would be bad for the city sorry i'm standing right
[Unidentified]: A couple of things are going on at the same time. The issue is the non-receipt of the bill for the correct person, meaning the owner of the house. The second is that the meter was recording. As far as I can tell, it was recording correctly because from what I gather, once the leakage was stopped, meaning that the flap was fixed, it's recording perfectly for consumption that is normal for that house. The third thing is the responsibility of the homeowner. We can't get around that. When you didn't get the first bill or the second bill, the first thing you should have done was say, hey, you know, you're not getting a water bill. What's going on? So there's a responsibility there. I do understand, also, that some cities in town should be a little bit more I don't know. I don't know what you know, but the thing is that thing That's what you're thinking a city in about is not a company. There's not a city. You know, they don't have seating rules They have bylaws And the bylaws are such that say that the responsibility I don't want to repeat everything I just had, you know over and over again So I don't know what to recommend in this case. What I would recommend is number one, that if you think that your meter was faulty, that can be tested and you want to point that out. And if it's tested and it's faulty, then we can have a real conversation about what's going on. But if it's okay, then you've got to pay, what, $150 or so for the meter to be tested. Anyway, we probably won't do that, but that's an issue. So that's an issue. You have to either test it or get that out. It probably should have happened when Ronnie suggested that it should be happening. Now we're talking about whether or not we need to resolve it. Number two, even if the city were to give them some reason to say, you know, things we've done A, B, C, D, E, and F, all things that the homeowner should be doing, I wish the city had done. Maybe we can go in that direction a little bit, maybe for a couple of months, and say to yourself, well, you know, maybe the city can mess up the first few months by not sending the bill, if you like, people, or even a second bill. But that's about it. The other thing you can do is to file for a hardship. We do have something like that. The things that happen to people, whether it be something cool, they talk about it, whether it's when they have a hearing, they might have a leak, but if they have a hearing, they don't know that they have a leak. So, at this point to share, I would like to recommend that you perhaps apply for action. I don't see any way around leaking, you know, leaks are not covered. That's it. There's no basis for leaks. A leak is a leak, a leak is a leak. And then that water goes in that meter. That's it. You have to pay for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: My plumber brought up a point. I'm not a plumber, so I just want to present that. So he said he found rocks and sand were found under fluid master washers on the second floor toilets, causing them to run continuously unnoticed.
[Unidentified]: I read something about something. Where was this rust or whatever?
[SPEAKER_00]: He said rust and sand were found under fluid master washers on the second floor. He's saying that by the property's pipe or copper, there shouldn't be any sand or rust is possible from outside surfaces. He was saying it's found under the monster washers.
[Dan Stoneking]: I believe what she's saying is that she believes that the sand came in from the waterline from the streets because it can't be generated from the copper lining. And this sand somehow got underneath the washers that created the leak. Debris. Debris. Sediment. Sediment. I'm sorry, what? Mr. Chairman, what? in the toilet, there's a fill valve and what happens is when you flush the toilet, the handle, the arm goes down with the barber on it and it brings it back up, right? And when that arm gets to the top, it's actually closing a valve in the fill valve. Sometimes some sediment can get into that gasket that can cause it to continuously run. Preventing from the valve from closing. Preventing the valve from closing.
[Unidentified]: The thing is, in order for that sediment to get inside that toilet, it has to go through the meter first. And not if that sediment could be present in the meter, it would affect the meter. So now what we're saying is, perhaps, because there was sand and sediment in the meter, maybe the meter is faulty. That's the only conclusion you can have.
[Dan Stoneking]: But Ron, with the sand, that's a sediment in the meter.
[Unidentified]: Hey, we can have a different conversation.
[Dan Stoneking]: Well, the sediment in the meter would probably just pass through. If it got in it, it would probably only slow it down. It could not speed it up.
[Unidentified]: I don't know what I would find out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So can I just read the letter from the plumber? Is that, can I read it? Okay. He said, this is from November, 2023. I was called to the above property 44 to 46 Mystic River Road regarding high water use. Rust and sand were found under fluid master washers on two second floor toilets, causing them to run continuously unnoticed. So he's not talking about the meters. He's talking about the toilets, right?
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah. The water that came in came from the street.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[Dan Stoneking]: And that had sand in it. Right, so the meters, and now it's settled on that rod shift that prevented the arm from going all the way up. But are there two meters in this property, or just one? One. One meter for both floors? Yeah, that's a meter. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he said washers were replaced and died tested faucet aerators were also clean debris. The new water meter now shows normal use. I have been providing plumbing services at this property since 2021 offering both routine maintenance and responding to on demand issues as they arise. throughout the year 2023, I made several visits to the property, and I must emphasize, I did not identify any water leaks during these inspections. So I just wanted to read that into the record. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that, right? I just wanted to make sure that was all in there. But you said when you went to the property with the property manager that you were not able to get to the second floor. Is that right? And do you know if that was before or after this letter was written? Okay, but it was November 2023? Yes. Okay.
[Dan Stoneking]: Ron, what he said though, if we could get some timelines here, when he supposedly changed out the watches, you could go to the actual meter and see usage, usage, usage, and all of a sudden he changed the watches on a date that he gives us. The readings stopped coming in. So I don't have that data. I can't see the data.
[Unidentified]: I was there 11-29. 11-29.
[Dan Stoneking]: You were there 11-29.
[Unidentified]: That's what the letter says. It would be a little bit unusual that the same water going to the second floor would have gone to the third floor because of the same exact problem.
[Dan Stoneking]: So, you know, it's something to think about.
[Unidentified]: I'm not quite sure what to do, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I suggest if Miss Lee wants to have the meter tested, I think it would be helpful if we could ask the treasurer's office to pull copies of the bills. that we don't know what happened to them, so we could see what the address was at least, because if they were getting sent to the property, that would be helpful information.
[Dan Stoneking]: I wonder if they've changed, once you change it, then it's hard to retrieve. But they should have like a PDF. There's a master PDF. Yeah. It's basically every bill continuously that we send to the billing company. So they just print one document, and it's every single bill. So they don't have to go through. You could do a search by the account number and come to that page. And you think you would see the old addresses and then when she actually changed it, no, you would actually see every single bill, but she would have to go into her history and find them all. Okay. But once the address was changed, is that where you see every single bill with the address that it was sent to? Which is what you want to investigate. You're trying to help me.
[Unidentified]: I know, I can see that. I appreciate it. I didn't know that I had a leash. much building so that people have even more immediate orders of something. The city hasn't responded to anything. They did go for a three, a four-litre, two-box build, but anyway, let's see if they can order at this point. Commissioners, I don't know what to recommend. I'll leave it up to you to recommend something that you feel would be fair, but also what they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just say something 1st of all. Hi, listen, right? I view this as opportunity to learn. I know you buy a property. You got to change that. That's for sure. But it is honest. mistake. I would think that the city would be not punitive, try to think from the resident's perspective, this is opportunity for the resident, also the city to work together, even though I take the responsibility that I should have changed my address that I didn't. But I honestly thought that the city have my have my property of paying real estate tax there, would have all been together. Yes, I did not even think twice about, oh, I'm sitting here, I didn't receive a water bill.
[Dan Stoneking]: You don't know, you don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never crossed my mind.
[Dan Stoneking]: Maybe we build once a year or something, or twice a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how many bills. Sure, it's every two months. Yeah, so these are 12 invoices somewhere, like nobody. It's hard to believe, yes, but I like to believe people are good people. Why would my tenants not forward me invoices, right? I just could not understand.
[Unidentified]: I don't think the city in any way wants to find things on you. Is that the very first job you've ever bought? Is that the very first property you have ever bought anywhere?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes. Well, for Medford. I live in Winchester. I don't live there. That's a different story.
[Unidentified]: No, no. What I'm saying to you personally, this new family home that you bought, is that the very first future property you've ever bought anywhere?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not.
[Unidentified]: Have you bought property before?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have bought a property, I have bought a condo before, but because of condo association. I actually, now you mentioned it, I actually, maybe that's why I never have to worry about the water bill from the condo. Yeah.
[Unidentified]: Another question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[Unidentified]: You have water insurance utilities. So you have several utilities in your home. You have water and sewage utility, you have your telephone utility, you have gas motorizer, yes? And you have electricity. Yes, those are utilities. If your electric bill didn't arrive to you within one month, two months, three, four months, what would you do? Would it cross your mind to say, hmm, something is wrong here. This utility, I'm not getting, I'm using electricity, but I'm not getting a bill. What if it happened to the gas? It was so bad. It's a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're absolutely right. To your point earlier, Mr. Dominic, the reason the water bill never crossed my mind, I own three condos. I never have to worry about the water bill. So it never crossed my mind with water bill. That's exactly why. I never even thought about it. Now you mentioned it, now I understand why I didn't think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is why it'll be useful to see what bills were sent, if any bills were sent to the property, because if they were, then I think from my perspective, there was notice to the property owner. Or to the property tenant, you know, whoever was living in the property. So I think that'll be useful information. If that's possible. Yeah, I was thinking from when she took ownership of the property. Would that be a lot of work? Well, how about this? Yeah.
[Dan Stoneking]: The first actual bill in after the final bill. Okay. And if it matches the last one. Yeah, we'll just everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's fine.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah, not to make it too hot, but then we'll pull to the first spell after she took ownership of the property.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the most recent bill. Yeah, that makes sense.
[Dan Stoneking]: I might be able to give actions to the commitments. Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[Unidentified]: Yes. So, the bills never got to you, they went to the previous donor. Which is logical, because that guy, whoever he was that sold to the house, changed his mailing address on anything that went to that house. One of which was his sister's law bill. That every time it went, whatever his name was, what was the name of the individual that sent to the house? Do you remember?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the individual, he's an Indian. Robert Smith.
[Unidentified]: Anytime that Robert Smith went to your house, he was told to swear. That's what people do, you know what I mean? Right. And each of the schools, the guy in school that's taking care of it, you can hear it probably from the boss, you know? You should have met a nice guy. They called me to say hi. Not for anything, but you want to build, he's coming to me. I think we should go to City Hall. That was not right for him. That was not nice of the assault on him to do that. I installed a building in Medford here, as I said, to make sure that the new owner understood that the bill was coming to me and it could be, you know, a hit. Anyway, fellow commissioners, what do you recommend we do here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, do you want to have the meter tested?
[Dan Stoneking]: Yes, yeah, it may may not, but at least it gives us some additional information. Do you think, Ron, do you have a recommendation there?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it's perspective on it?
[Dan Stoneking]: I haven't had a meter come back over registering, but that's. Okay, there is some there. So just the type of meter it is, it's a positive displacement meter. It's got a chamber in it. And that chamber fills up in dumps on the other side. So this little it oscillates, okay, it water goes in, and it comes out, and it moves in that motion, since since a magnet, which spins the top register. Yep. So then you see the dial spinning. Yeah. And that's how, but Has any media ever come back that sediment actually sucks? That's different.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say it goes right through. Sediment? Fine.
[Dan Stoneking]: Sediment? No. So sediment can clog a gear. It'll stop the gears. Stop the chamber from spinning because it gets all bound up. We have meters that tend to click. Some little sediment gets in there. They still work, but you hear like a tick, tick, tick. And that's the sediment being scuffed up around, and it travels through the pipe, and it actually sounds like a ticking thing. I call it a clicking meter. All of these things would slow down a meter. If you were to take your finger on a fan when you were a kid, and you put your finger on the fan, the more pressure you put on it, you could probably make it stop, right? It's the same scenario. If you put your finger on it, it's not going to speed up. The chamber only can measure so much water before it dumps. It can't over-measure. I agree with that. The only thing would be a mechanical issue within the top. So we had it tested on her behalf, finding the sediment in there would be in her favor. No sediment would not be. My opinion is, I send it out to a testing company, they're not going to take the meter aside. I would want to send it out to the meter company, get the test results, They're not going to open it up and look at it. I wouldn't open it up if it becomes evidence in a court case. I would not do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you'd want to have it tested first and then open it up? I would never open it.
[Dan Stoneking]: They would just drive water through it. Their own water. If it goes to a court case, they might ask for that. And if someone tampers with it, anything that you could do in the future would be insubmissible, right? I can, can I just give my recommendation? Absolutely. I would like to hear one, two, three, how you guys can, where you stand with this, aside from sending the meter out to be tested. Well, that would, that would give clear determination of an accuracy. My, my opinion as, as a meter technician for 16 years and over 20 years, I've never seen a meter spin over in favor of a customer in a test. I explained this to Rachel, but we still could go that avenue. The commission could waive that fee if they want. The city will pay that cost, since it is such a great amount of money. But I'd like to hear where you guys stand right now in trying to resolve this. Is it just go right to a hardship and have it tested? Well, I think she should file the hardship form number one, just so that we can have something on file that possibly could be an avenue for us to consider. I'm not ready to rule on it or make a motion on it. No, because I think Emily has brought up a good point about the bill. And I'd like to hear what that first and last bill. It would certainly give me some satisfaction on my response.
[Unidentified]: What about the bill? What is it saying?
[Dan Stoneking]: They want to see the mailing address and the owner on the bill.
[Unidentified]: Here's the thing, at this point, look, I think we're going around in circles. Right now, my recommendation would be A, PETA gets tested, at least, at the very least. B, let's see, if you're fully paid, right now, I'm in charge of cities in Singapore. I've paid $18,000 because I was...
[SPEAKER_00]: Going away and I don't want to shut down the water for the people. I didn't know I got this demand and then the 1st time I've ever seen my life. So, I kind of went and paid it. But I didn't pay the other 4,000, so total is 22, 23,000. My question, actually, I do have a question. For average two family like this, what's the average usage? Then have you guys ever had a resident actually incur in eight months, nine months to $22,000 of water usage?
[Dan Stoneking]: different circumstances. They might have a flood where they went away, the basement filled up with water. This is all about a bill not getting delivered.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, how did I get the bill? How did I get the bill? I wouldn't fix it right away. I would take actions. And I just felt like, yes, I should have done it, but it's the first time I ever made a mistake. City is supposed to be speak for their people and work for their people I feel like it's going the direction of polish you for you not knowing You know what you should have done Okay, so my question again Are you fully paid as far as the city's concerned at this point? I'm not fully paid because I don't have enough money for the credit card. I paid 18 000 How much have you paid? I paid $18,000, the first bill.
[Dan Stoneking]: $18,000 she's paid.
[SPEAKER_00]: $4,000 something. There's two bills. First one is $18,000. That's the first one I've sold.
[Unidentified]: That was the demand bill.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the demand bill the week of the Thanksgiving. Then I got one before. Sorry.
[Unidentified]: My recommendation at this point, Chair, would be to A, Test the meter. B, commissioners, I would like to perhaps at least waive the interest. He's paid, in good faith, $18,000. He's also paid the other $4,000. At this point, whatever interest you've accumulated, I would say that we waive that at the very least to show that the city does have some equity. I'm not quite sure how much interest you've accumulated, but that should be waived. That's my motion. At least I'll waive it as a commissioners.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dominic, Chair, since it seems like this conversation is going to continue to the next meeting, perhaps we should wait to make motions until we have the information back about meters since you recommended testing it and also about where the bills have been sent to. Because I do think that's really important information.
[Dan Stoneking]: I'd support that, Dominic, that motion or that recommendation.
[Unidentified]: So what are you supporting here?
[Dan Stoneking]: Well, it's a recommendation. I'm just saying I would support Emily's recommendation. To what? To put everything on hold? Basically, but there's some information that we would specifically need.
[Unidentified]: And what is that information that's going to be used? When the bills are going, what difference is that going to make?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to know if the bills were going to the property. Because if the tenants were receiving the bills, then from my perspective, the information was arriving at the property. And then there might have been a communication breakdown between the tenants and the property owner. But from my perspective, if the bills were going to Florida, then the tenants and the property owner had no way of knowing that there was this dramatic escalation in usage, and therefore the bill. So they had no way of being on notice, right? And I understand that it's still the property owner's responsibility to put the bills in her name, but I still think it's an important piece of information to know whether or not the bills came to the property that were tapped.
[Unidentified]: stand up and i can almost guarantee you that we're going to the problem but the phone holder at his address you know changed obviously when you move you tell him you're going to change my address this is my new mailing address so all that bill that was going to that property under that name went somewhere else so but we can find out If that is the case, I don't know how you're going to find that out, but you'll find out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the reason I'm confused, Dominic, is because the demand bill arrived at the property. So why didn't the prior bills arrive? It's just very confusing to me. What do you call it?
[Unidentified]: Property bill. Property bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not the case. That's fine. the recommendation is that we don't take any action today and we wait to receive further information, which includes the bills. We're going to get two bills, which Ron recommended, which I agree with. The bill immediately following when Ms. Lee took ownership of the property and the most recent bill, or
[Dan Stoneking]: If I can get them all up, prior to the demand bill, I would say. Prior to the demand bill, because we don't know what they did with the demand bill.
[Unidentified]: On a motion to hold off until we have further information. All those in favor? Aye. Okay, so that's one. So, Denae, if you can report back now. However, on the motion that we at least waive whatever interest has been appeared in that report, that doesn't have to wait until we get people to pay. Whatever information we get is going to be irrelevant. And we can certainly make adjustments to that, if you apply to that. But I don't see why we can't approve whatever interest was approved.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's saying he'd still like to take a vote on the motion to waive the interest.
[Dan Stoneking]: Can I make a recommendation? Yeah. I think that it should all be handled at once. I agree. So that we don't have to do two abatements. I agree. If there's additional abatement, you know. Right. I think that everybody's buddies and all the commissioners are probably in agreement that they would wait. Yeah. Right. We would. Is that A and B and C?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right. So there could be additional abatement. So I agree with Ron that we should wait till the next meeting. and take a vote on a total abatement amount, which could be the interest plus something else.
[Dan Stoneking]: Potentially. So just to explain that, just so I could make everybody feel better about it and understand how it works. She already paid all the interest, okay? We could go back and get that number, easy. The new bill, I could put her on a payment plan because she received one bill or maybe a second one's coming. My recommendation would be I could put her on a payment plan which waives all interest and I will send that document to you and it gets you six months interest-free including that bill for $4,000. So you won't have to pay that interest until the conclusion of this abatement, all right?
[SPEAKER_00]: May I ask, is it the city's responsibility to monitor the usage of each product here?
[Dan Stoneking]: Responsibility?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. To monitor all the... I don't think it's the responsibility.
[Dan Stoneking]: Ron, not the responsibility. As a courtesy, there is a system in place. I did send a letter. He gets an alert when something is very, very unusual, and that's when he sends something in letter form, correct? That, hey, you've got a really a lot of users, it could be a leak, correct? Is that right? No, that was not. Is that right? When you get an alert, say you notice on my property, hey, something's going on here, you send something to me, right? It's a courtesy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you said that letter when, Jeremiah?
[Dan Stoneking]: I don't have it. I remember the property. I remember the bill being so high that it was in my top 10. And where would you have sent it? Where would you have sent it? Where the mailing address was connected to the bill. I don't, I don't. So we've got to find out about this address. Cause he, now we try to, we find out, should maybe do this. that Ron also sent a letter on it. He may have sent it to the address that was incorrect. You don't remember getting a high usage notice, Bill, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's somebody's monitoring.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah, but it's not our responsibility. But I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a courtesy, it's a courtesy.
[Dan Stoneking]: But you know, we have a water smart system that maybe Ron will tell you about that you can go online and monitor your usage of your bottles. The new meter is just on disclosure.
[Unidentified]: That's what we're trying to do tonight. I expect that. So Ronnie pointed out he can get the figures for the interest and so on and so forth, but that doesn't, I guess, wait until we have the whole thing wrapped up. Thank you for all your consideration, Emily and Ronnie. I know you're all trying to do the right thing.
[Dan Stoneking]: Have we established, are we in agreement that the meat is going to be tested just so we know what's going on with that? And if so, who's going to pay for that, the 150? I said, are we all in agreement this evening, including Ms. Lee, that the meter will be tested and that who is going to pay the $150? We just need Ms.
[Unidentified]: Lee's permission to test it. We just need Ms. Lee's permission. Well, we can test it on our own.
[Dan Stoneking]: for our own identification. We're going to test it.
[Unidentified]: and then the commission will weigh the cost of that one. So if it's, you know, it's okay, it's not too loud. And then we'll talk about the 8% debt assessment. We'll see what we can do. We'll see what we can do. And if we find that the city has some kind of responsibility, you know, we'll take that into consideration as well. Now, are you, you know, are you going to find some sort of action of any kind?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I will. She has not, but she will. Yes. She will.
[Dan Stoneking]: I guess I have the biggest mouth. I'm sorry, I have to leave.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that would be helpful to include in the minutes for Okay, I'm sorry I have to leave early. Yeah, I see you. I have to get home.
[Dan Stoneking]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we'll just schedule a meeting. Do you want to do it? Is that it for tonight? Yeah.
[Unidentified]: Okay, and you'll sign the things for me as we agreed, okay?
[Dan Stoneking]: We only need two out of three signatures. We got enough with the commitments.
[Unidentified]: Well, anyways, you can sign me off as long as you wish. It doesn't matter.
[Dan Stoneking]: Ms. Lee is going to leave the meeting now. Ms. Lee is going to leave. Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. Have a good night. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Thank you.
[Unidentified]: Okay, good night. So Mark, Ronnie, Denae, you're all set?
[Dan Stoneking]: Yes? Yes, thank you. As far as the minutes from the last meeting, did you get the chance to read it? Because I'll make a motion to approve if you want to second it. Okay. Yes. All right, so the minutes of the meeting from the last meeting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Set?
[Dan Stoneking]: I guess, yeah, we're all set. Good night.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good night.